GEORGE KROL, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE FOR SOUTH AND CENTRAL ASIAN AFFAIRS
INTERVIEW WITH VOA TV RUSSIAN SERVICE – NAJIA BADYKOVA (10/03/2008)
Question (in Russian): Many experts believe that crisis in the Caucasus influenced the relationship between the United States and Russia, and that such a crisis will have an impact on the policy towards Central Asian countries and the Caucasus. Will U.S. policy change?
Deputy Assistant Secretary Krol: If you mean how does the policy of the United States towards Central Asia, if it has changed at all as a result of the situation that occurred in Georgia with Russia, I wouldn't say that it has changed our policy at all. We have always been -- that is the United States -- supportive of the sovereignty, independence, and territorial integrity of all of the countries of Central Asia and the Caucasus as well, Georgia included. That is quite clear in our reaction to Russia's actions that took place in Georgia.
I believe that the Central Asians are quite concerned about Russia's actions in Georgia. In my own travels in the region, they are concerned -- that if you, with regard to the United States and Russia -- that the relationship between the United States and Russia does not turn into another Cold War in which countries may be asked to take sides or to choose between being a friend of the United States and a friend of Russia.
Our position on this is that we do not wish to see a Cold War develop. There is no Cold War. That is something in the past. And that we wish to work cooperatively with the countries in Central Asia, as well as to continue to work cooperatively with Russia in areas of mutual concern that may affect Central Asia, such as the situation in Afghanistan. I think we have with Russia a common interest in the area such as stability, economic prosperity, in developing the economies and connections of these countries with a wider global world. The differences of opinion between Russia and the United States are not ones that we see that should affect our relationship -- the American relationship -- with Central Asia.
And therefore, I think that as I said, our strong message to the countries of Central Asia is that we respect them, we respect their sovereignty, their independence. We will continue to work with them in developing our mutual interests, but that we are not seeking any kind of a Cold War with Russia or that the situation that we have with Russia is one that would in any way damage or threaten these countries' interests.
Question: Yes, I agree with you, and so do many experts, that we are far from the Cold War. There is no Cold War between Russia and the United States of America. Nevertheless, the situation between Russia and the Caucasus does not go unnoticed and many believe that many projects -- namely, energy projects the United State supported -- will not materialize. Many believe, we should forget about Nabucco, in particular. How do you respond? Are these energy projects realistic? Transporting gas from Turkmenistan or Kazakhstan to Europe? What will the United States do?
Deputy Assistant Secretary Krol: I think these energy projects like Nabucco that you mentioned have always been rather long term. That is they're not going to occur in six months or a year and the like. One has to take the long perspective. I think these energy corridors -- if you will -- can be realized. How and when they will be realized, will be a matter having to deal with financing, and with how the countries that will be involved in developing these energy corridors work out the arrangements among themselves.
The situation that occurred in Georgia did not physically affect the pipelines that traversed Georgia for the long term. There were perhaps some short term stoppages by the companies that run the lines, is my understanding. But I think that overall all the countries in the region see the importance and certainly the commercial viability of these lines, and these corridors that can bring, for instance, the gas from Turkmenistan into world markets across the Caspian. When I have met with leadership in Turkmenistan they said they're still very much interested in this line as well as Azerbaijan as I understand, Kazakhstan, which has of course significant resources that they're developing in the northern Caspian.
I don't think that the situation that occurred in Georgia is going to stop these kind of plans, and that they're fully feasible over time.
Question (in Russian): You've mentioned Turkmenistan. Speaking of Turkmenistan, you've recently visited Turkmenistan. What are your impressions of Turkmenistan? What is going on there? Any progress?
Deputy Assistant Secretary Krol: Well, the last time I was in Turkmenistan was in 1996, so coming back -- as it were -- 12 years later, I could see physically a great change. I did not go much beyond the city of Ashgabat. If anyone is ever there, they will see there is a lot of white marble and a city that is built with grand boulevards and with quite -- aspirations, I think, of beauty in the middle of the desert with of course the great Kopet Dag Mountains behind.
Turkmenistan has a new President and a new President -- President Berdymukhamedov -- who is embarking on what he calls "Taze Galkynysh," which is the new renaissance of Turkmenistan, which, in my discussions with the Turkmen leadership -- as well as the Turkmen people -- is quite an important development in the evolution of their society and the evolution of their institutions. They have promulgated a new edition of their constitution, changing their institutions somewhat. They are trying to devote a great deal of attention to education, to developing the technical prowess of their population, as well as building up the infrastructure of their country, to bring their country as an economy and as a society and as a government well within the norms, international norms, and to open up the country considerably to interaction with the outside world. This is, I think, quite relevant. Many people are now coming to Turkmenistan. The government is welcoming them to come and to see what opportunities there are for trade and investment and for engagement.
The United States Embassy, for instance, is extremely busy in Turkmenistan. Many delegations coming from the United States, visiting there who are working on projects with the Turkmen on areas in education, in health care, in the social spheres, and I think there's a great deal of excitement in the relationship between the United States and Turkmenistan, that we are moving on many fronts together. It is a large endeavor, and it will take considerable time and patience as the Turkmen President and the people of Turkmenistan fully understand. But they're opening up -- that is Turkmenistan -- not just to the United States but to China, to Europe, to Russia, and developing as they -- in the way and in the forms and at the speed that they --- feel is appropriate for them.
I saw and felt a great deal of opportunity there and openness and a desire to engage, and that is what the United States is doing. That's what the United States has always been doing, is to engage with the Turkmen people and government ever since 1992 when we established diplomatic relations and a Mission there. Now the doors are opening. They're inviting us to go through these doors, and not just the Americans, too. So I think it's a period of change and a period of great opportunity between the United States and Turkmenistan.
Question (in Russian): Let's talk about Afghanistan. Despite the efforts of the United States and multi-national coalition forces, the situation in Afghanistan raises concerns in Central Asian countries. At the same time, many experts note that Central Asian countries do not take active part in regional projects, which may help Afghanistan. When something happens, Afghanistan asks the United States for help. What is your comment on this? How active are the Central Asians countries in regional projects?
Deputy Assistant Secretary Krol: In my travels in Central Asia most recently, in every country that I visited and with every leadership with whom I conversed, the subject of Afghanistan was always raised. It's very important to them from a security standpoint, also from an economic standpoint because many of the countries of Central Asia certainly see that if the situation were to stabilize in Afghanistan that Afghanistan could play a very important role in the economic development of Central Asia and South Asia by acting as the bridge between -- a trade bridge as well as with pipelines and developing the resources that are in the region. So they have a great deal of interest in seeing that Afghanistan develop as a sovereign, independent, stable and prosperous state which we share -- the United States -- as well as other partners in the area including Russia.
I would say that the Central Asian states have been very active with Afghanistan. There recently were signed agreements between Uzbekistan and Afghanistan on building and facilitating the transmission of electricity from Uzbekistan to Afghanistan that will enable and will develop the economy and also improve the lives of the citizens in Afghanistan in their cities.
Similarly there is an agreement between Tajikistan and Afghanistan for providing more electricity into Afghanistan for economic development, as well as with Turkmenistan. Turkmenistan is providing humanitarian assistance to Afghanistan, they're building a railway, they're building transmission lines. President Berdymukhamedov visited Kabul not so long ago in order to -- they are training Afghans in their institutions, not just in Turkmenistan but elsewhere in Central Asia -- the trade that is developing between Afghanistan and its neighbors, such as Tajikistan. The United States was instrumental in funding the building of a bridge, a major bridge, the Nizhniy Pyanzh River Bridge between Tajikistan and Afghanistan. Recently that bridge was opened, about a year ago.
So we see a very active role by the Central Asians in Afghanistan because they see why it is so important for their own economic development as well as for their own security, to ensure there is a stable situation in Afghanistan, that it is also not going to be a source for narcotics trafficking, for criminality, for extremism that can be very dangerous to the countries, the northern neighbors of Afghanistan.
So they are very interested, and not just interested in Afghanistan, but they are also very active. Kazakhstan, which maybe geographically doesn't have a border with Afghanistan nevertheless desires to invest in the Afghan economy as well as - even Kyrgyzstan is involved in trying to work out a way of providing electricity, an electricity grid that can also help in providing electricity to Afghanistan, as well as building roads that would lead all the way from Kazakhstan to Afghanistan and through Afghanistan, beyond Pakistan and India. Railways, as I mentioned, between Turkmenistan and Afghanistan.
So it is, even in spite of the tension and the situation that is, the security situation that is concerning many people in Afghanistan, nevertheless there is progress in the relationship and in the developing of the actions and activities of the Central Asians. And the United States has been very supportive of these activities by the Central Asians which they see as in their own interest, and we see in our interest too in developing -- again -- a regional neighborhood of economic ties and political and cultural ties among all of these countries that certainly bring -- as we would say -- bring the word "Central" back into Central Asia. That it's not at the periphery of something or at the edge of a world or an empire or something like that, but it is very much at the center of trade, commerce, culture, which it had been of course historically centuries ago.
Again, I think the peoples of Central Asia have a long perspective. They are peoples that are very old on the face of the earth, their histories. They may be new states, however I think they understand -- and their leaderships understand -- that the long term perspective can be quite bright, I think for them, having these new opportunities in front of them since 1992.
Question: On November 4th, the Americans will be electing their new President and there are a lot of discussions about it. And naturally, the question is how U.S. policy toward Russia will change with a presidency of Obama or McCain. However, not much is said about Central Asia. With a new administration, would U.S. policy toward Central Asia change?
Deputy Assistant Secretary Krol: Well, as someone - I've been 25 years in the diplomatic service and I have seen many changes of administrations since then. I think that every administration I think recognizes pretty much the fundamental interest that the United States has in the world and in various regions. And quite frankly, I don't see that there would be any major changes or differences, regardless of who becomes President of the United States. There may be changes of individuals, of people, but I think our interests remain very much the same and they've remained the same from under the first Bush, Sr. -- as they say, George Bush, Sr. -- when these countries first became independent, through the Clinton years and through the George W. Bush years as well. Those interests have been very much the same. It's building a partnership, a relationship with each of these countries based upon a fundamental principle of respect for sovereignty, territorial integrity, and independence. And realizing that this is a long term relationship that we have that is based upon continuous engagement and not subject to the fluctuations of elections, whether it's Democrats or Republicans.
I think as far as Central Asia is concerned, I've seen, for instance, in discussions about it of the Central Foreign Relations Committee, for instance, that there is a great deal of agreement among Senator Lugar and Senator Biden -- Senator Biden as the Chairman, Senator Lugar as the ranking member -- on the importance of Central Asia, and I see this among the staffs in the Congress, in both parties. So I don't see that whether it's an Obama Administration or a McCain Administration that there would be much of a difference. I think there will be certainly an accent on developing our security relationships with these countries, with our economic relationships, and I think whether it's a Democrat or a Republican, certainly our relationships on human rights, respect for human rights, and how these countries are developing their societies. This has always been of great importance to both Republicans and Democrats in the United States Congress, and I think to both leaders, who are leading their parties in the general election in November.
While we can always wait to see what will come out of the elections, I think our interests -- America's interests -- regardless of being Democratic or Republican, are America's interests and they will remain I think pretty much the same. I think we would hope, as I said in an earlier answer to your question, that we'd get more resources for programs that we wish to work with cooperatively in Central Asia, and attention to Central Asia from whoever the new administration will be, and I think that is something that I think we can all look forward to, regardless of whoever becomes President of the United States in November.
Question (in Russian): And the last question. Where did you study Turkmen language?
Deputy Assistant Secretary Krol: Here in the United States. I was fortunate enough to have studied some Turkmen before this assignment, too, so I was very happy to have the opportunity when I was in Turkmenistan to make my public remarks in Turkmen. But I certainly hope that I can in this position come back frequently to Turkmenistan and to improve my Turkmen language and be able to speak it more freely and spontaneously.
Question: Thank you very much.
Deputy Assistant Secretary Krol: Thank you.
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